Author | Lightnews

(((Asa Zernik))) @asazernik.bsky.social · 13h

An alternate take to others I've retweeted.

Alon (they/them) @alonlevy.bsky.social · 14h

Yeah, this. The ADL's primary problem is not that they care about Israel more than about Jews; it's that they attack left-wing anti-Semitism more vociferously than right-wing anti-Semitism, even when the latter isn't pro-Israel (Musk, as I never tire of pointing out, unbanned Quds News Network).

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A penitent who is loud @loudpenitent.bsky.social · 14h

It wasn't the ADL that made a bunch of people decide to side with Neo-Nazi Nick Fuentes because he was condemning Israel. People signed up for that dude's bigoted, antisemitic following BECAUSE he was hostile to Israel. You cannot actually neatly separate opinions on Israelis from opinions of Jews.

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A penitent who is loud @loudpenitent.bsky.social · 14h

Yes the ADL has clearly decided that protecting Israel is such a priority for them they they're willing to turn a blind eye to right wing bigotry and antisemitism.

This makes them just the mirror image of many leftists who decided anti-Israel activism was SO important antisemitism didn't matter.

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(((Asa Zernik))) @asazernik.bsky.social · 14h

That's a decent sample size if you're not trying to dig into the crosstabs! ie sample bias is a lot bigger of a worry than random sampling error.

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Ryan Geddie @ryangeddie.bsky.social · 19h

You still believe that material conditions are at the root of all social conflict? Because at seven it's marginal, right?

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(((Asa Zernik))) @asazernik.bsky.social · 20h

There's a reason most American Jews (and the Israeli Supreme Court) answer "yes it can be both"!

But the occupation creates an iron triangle (in the engineering sense). Democracy, a Jewish state, and the Whole Land of Israel: pick 2.

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(((Asa Zernik))) @asazernik.bsky.social · 19h

Open borders is not a common position, and if your standard for "is this compatible with democracy" excludes every state in the world (some of them both widely considered democratic and with nakedly ethnic immigration laws) then it's a double standard for Israel specifically.

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(((Asa Zernik))) @asazernik.bsky.social · 19h

The iron triangle is the result of practice, not theory. There is nothing magic about the '67 lines except that 1) Palestinians on the other side of them are not Israeli citizens and and 2) demographics.

(((Asa Zernik))) @asazernik.bsky.social · 19h

As a practical matter, such a state it would be unlikely to continue to use Jewish symbols and the Hebrew language and have a Law of Return. So no.

Again, root cause vs content.

This is *why* that iron triangle exists - with the Territories, there is only the barest Jewish majority, if at all.

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(((Asa Zernik))) @asazernik.bsky.social · 19h

This is a ridiculous position that no democracy I know of actually holds.

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(((Asa Zernik))) @asazernik.bsky.social · 19h

That is the root cause of its Jewish nature, but not the content of that nature.

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(((Asa Zernik))) @asazernik.bsky.social · 19h

(The US also discriminates by nationality for immigration purposes - its lottery system forces demographic balance across different regions of the world, regardless of individual desire to enter the country. It just decided to do so in a way that's neutral in internal ethnic politics.)

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(((Asa Zernik))) @asazernik.bsky.social · 19h

Foreigners are not citizens of the state. They also do not have civil rights (notably the right to vote).

This goes double when they have not yet physically entered the country.

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shit-the-nyt-says.bsky.social @shit-the-nyt-says.bsky.social · 20h

Yours is actually less insane than what's written now.

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(((Asa Zernik))) @asazernik.bsky.social · 20h

Then the iron triangle no longer applies, because those horrific measures are not compatible with democracy.

That is not the world we live in, though.

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(((Asa Zernik))) @asazernik.bsky.social · 20h

...as long as minority rights (individual and collective) are preserved and an electoral majority still wants those things.

More substantively "Jewish" than just having a Jewish majority. Generally liberal Jewish Zionists (Israeli and American) mean this when they say the two are compatible. [2/2]

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(((Asa Zernik))) @asazernik.bsky.social · 20h

America at one point decided that privileging white symbols and narratives over minority ones is unacceptable. I think this speaks well for America.

A country can make different choices - keeping an ethnic Law of Return, symbols of state with Jewish imagery, &c - and still be a democracy... [1/2]

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(((Asa Zernik))) @asazernik.bsky.social · 20h

If you make the assumption that the occupation is permanent and should be treated as integral to the Israeli system (not my view, but not a crazy position) then you're left with a binary contradiction.

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(((Asa Zernik))) @asazernik.bsky.social · 20h

There's a reason most American Jews (and the Israeli Supreme Court) answer "yes it can be both"!

But the occupation creates an iron triangle (in the engineering sense). Democracy, a Jewish state, and the Whole Land of Israel: pick 2.

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(((Asa Zernik))) @asazernik.bsky.social · 20h

Paging @aphclarkson.bsky.social , who specializes in these diaspora politics

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JarekFA @jarekfa.bsky.social · 1d

I think what makes it particularly bad, is that the organizations tasked with fighting it, care more about Israel than they do about the "Jews are bringing in darkies to eliminate the white race and steal votes" antisemites who run the government and are motivated by their animus.

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"Online Rent-a-Sage" Bret Devereaux @bretdevereaux.bsky.social · 22h

Been too long since I did a big silly ancient history 🧵so let's bring an old one back over from the Bad Place:

It's time for ::air horn:: Publius Ventidius Bassus, the coolest Roman you have never heard of and the only person to walk in a triumph first as captive, then as triumphing general. 1/

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BeijingPalmer @beijingpalmer.bsky.social · 22h

I am going to become the joker (will stancil)

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Joel S. @joelhs.bsky.social · 21h

My source for 20% of American Jews as anti-Zionists is this poll by the AJC, finding that 1 in 5 American Jews think Israel should be a democracy and not a Jewish state. (www.ajc.org/news/survey2...) I find this more meaningful than asking about Zionism, since the term is so contested.

"In your opinion, can the State of Israel be both a Jewish state and a democracy, and if not, which should it be?"

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rev. howard arson @theophite.bsky.social · 1d

according to the supreme court, a professional, non-partisan civil service is unconstitutional

Clean Observer @hammbear2024.bsky.social · 2d

This will have a very bad outcome for democracy.
Professional, non-partisan civil service promotes democracy and is a key feature of it.

Don Moynihan @donmoyn.bsky.social · 2d

New, from me: until recently there was strong bipartisan consensus that a nonpartisan civil service was good and that politicization was bad. Now views are more divided, with Republicans aligning with the pro-politicization actions of Trump. 🧵
donmoynihan.substack.com/p/trump-has-...

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