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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 10h

The question of "are Jews who converted still Jewish? Technically? In any way that matters?" is academic and not that interesting. (Unless for ex. one is a rabbi or community leader involved in vetting new members).

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 10h

So when we Jews are discussing Jews becoming messies, we're not really invested in the theological+halakhik questions of their status, but more worried on how to get rid of the fucking messy proselytizing institution/cults and keep them from screwing things up for Jews and Jewish communities.

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 10h

…how xtianity should be done and that's fine) by sprinkling (superfluous/alien) ceremony on their stuff.

For the very few Jews that do get tricked, the question of "are they still Jewish" should still be the same as for a Jew that converted to xtianity without the weird Jewish cosplay.

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 10h

Their deal is not "how can you be Jewish while accepting Jesus" as an honest question. They are regular xtians doing cosplay as camouflage for their assholery. The xtians that buy into the shtick aren't doing Judaism, they are doing xtianity (wrong imo, but my opinion is irrelevant to xtians on…

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 10h

The big thing to remember when discussing messies is that their deal is not about theology, or customs or how to do/be jews, or even how to do/be xtians.

The goal of messies is to fuck Jews over by tricking them to convert to Christianity. It's not an honest pursuit of truth nor faith, etc.

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 11h

Rachel Harris, Ramona Young, Kat Dennings, Kate Micucci, Catherine Keener, Tyler Labine, Lauren Lapkus, Wanda Sykes.

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 11h

"kindness to others, except when I'm asked to stop propagating antisemitic prejudices". Neat

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 11h

Do you know who particularly uses pharisee to mean "bad like Jews"? The kind of people you're trying to criticize in your OP. I would imagine you don't want to act like them.

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 11h

"antisemitism is ok because it's useful to me" is not a great excuse.

You can make your point without using an expression that has gained the meaning "bad because too jewy".

You can make your point without throwing Jews under the bus.

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 2d

They are not. The expression "They are Pharisees" just means "bad because too jewy".

The descriptions of Pharisees in the NT are inaccurate, the initial lies about them. Calling people you don't like Pharisees just perpetuate those lies & antisemitic prejudices vs all Jews

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · Apr 15

At this point using the comparison "x people/person is being such a Pharisee" has been so thoroughly tainted with antisemitism and carrying so much baggage, that people should not even try to use it even with multiple caveats and clarifications.

It just means "bad like Jews"

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 16h

When most are xtians from other sects who were also duped into thinking this is a not-weird cult.

Leaders who are doing the tricking also benefit from (gentile) bystanders thinking that messies are a totally normal thing and not an antisemitic attempt to trick Jews into converting.

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 16h

A big issue is that messies have incentive to lie about it (the way people roped into multi level marketing have incentive to lie and say they are successful even when losing a lot of money).

Messies' goal of converting Jews hinges on the perception that they are actual Jews who 'found Jesus'.

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 16h

Jews don't care about Paul.

DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 16h

Are you asking "why does ceasing to be Jewish makes you not Jewish"?

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 1d

And Herod is 1 person. "This guy is bad" is a _lot_ different than "all these guys in this group are bad".

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 1d

Ah Nicodemus. Note how whenever xtians are asked about the "good jews" they answer with either Jesus or one of the guys who became xtians.

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 1d

…call them hypocrites. "Pharisees" is overly broad (it's used for any and every trait people think is bad), w/ the important problem of the antisemitic baggage.

It's not really as useful a description as you think. As an insult, it's powerful b/c the worse a xtian can call another is "Jew".

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 1d

…the comparison.

You're still saying "I think these guys are bad because they are too much like Jews".

Jesus' (supposed) problem with the Pharisees is not that they are Pharisees, it was the (supposed) hypocrisy etc. If you think the evangelicals (or whoever) are bad because of hypocrisy, then…
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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 1d

1) the info about the connection between Pharisees and rabbinical Judaism is in one of the threads I gave you. If you had read them we'd be here a lot sooner.

2) we understand your use, the objection is not because we did not understood it. The objection is because we think it's a bad use of …
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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 1d

This is just "you are recognizing the antisemitism which means the antisemite is you" defense. It's being disingenuous. Stop doing that.

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 1d

I care little about what Jesus did. I care about what xtians have done for nearly 2 millennia.

You are choosing to ignore the long history of gentiles using the "x is a pharisee" expression. You're not coming up with a novel and creative quip. You're standing on the shoulder of antisemitic giants.

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 1d

Way to dismiss people asking you to stop repeating antisemitic expressions as "flailing away".

Weird that you choose to ignore centuries of antisemitism to excuse using an idiom that you find cutesy and clever; right in under a post from a pastor lamenting churches doing shitty things.

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 2d

I have the same gigantic pet peeve! Don't use the description to tell me the cast or anything that is not the description! There's already a place for that.

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 2d

For more info check the linked threads in this part of this post's replies.

A big problem with using "Pharisees" is that there's no way to put 'the genie back in', can't just say "I meant the chars. in the story" when so often they are used as placeholders for modern Jews.

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 2d

They are not. The expression "They are Pharisees" just means "bad because too jewy".

The descriptions of Pharisees in the NT are inaccurate, the initial lies about them. Calling people you don't like Pharisees just perpetuate those lies & antisemitic prejudices vs all Jews

bsky.app/profile/froz...

DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · Apr 15

At this point using the comparison "x people/person is being such a Pharisee" has been so thoroughly tainted with antisemitism and carrying so much baggage, that people should not even try to use it even with multiple caveats and clarifications.

It just means "bad like Jews"

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 2d

"Viscacha in profile" > "Link in bio"

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DeKay, Carb Cat Spooky Herder @frozenkoi.bsky.social · 2d

What is the platonic ideal of "Brassica oleracea" ?