Sasooli
@sasooli.bsky.social
Even a good thing is not as good as nothing
And nobody respectable would defend the same standard applied to e.g. black South Africans.
December 18, 2025 at 10:59 PM
And nobody respectable would defend the same standard applied to e.g. black South Africans.
And anyone who's genuinely concerned about anti-Semitism - which we all should be! - should be much more worried about the people loudly and repeatedly saying "we are committing horrendous crimes in the name of all Jews everywhere, and all true Jews support us" than any pro-Palestine slogan.
December 18, 2025 at 10:45 PM
And anyone who's genuinely concerned about anti-Semitism - which we all should be! - should be much more worried about the people loudly and repeatedly saying "we are committing horrendous crimes in the name of all Jews everywhere, and all true Jews support us" than any pro-Palestine slogan.
Anyway I have to go now. We clearly disagree on the details of how that phrase is used, but at least we definitely do agree on the necessity and morality of destroying the Israeli war machine and government.
Take care.
Take care.
December 18, 2025 at 7:23 PM
Anyway I have to go now. We clearly disagree on the details of how that phrase is used, but at least we definitely do agree on the necessity and morality of destroying the Israeli war machine and government.
Take care.
Take care.
Right, obviously the people mustn't be destroyed. But the regime must be, and so nobody has the right to defend the regime; for example, we can definitely agree that it's morally justifiable to kill any serving member of the IDF, and unjustifiable for them to fight back to defend fascism.
December 18, 2025 at 7:22 PM
Right, obviously the people mustn't be destroyed. But the regime must be, and so nobody has the right to defend the regime; for example, we can definitely agree that it's morally justifiable to kill any serving member of the IDF, and unjustifiable for them to fight back to defend fascism.
I mean, you can find plenty of examples of Israeli officials using that exact phrase to justify their genocidal attacks in Gaza. I don't think this is really ambiguous.
December 18, 2025 at 7:20 PM
I mean, you can find plenty of examples of Israeli officials using that exact phrase to justify their genocidal attacks in Gaza. I don't think this is really ambiguous.
But that's what lots of people mean when they use that phrase.
And of course, many people also use that phrase to refer to Israel attacking people who have never attacked them, such as unarmed children.
And of course, many people also use that phrase to refer to Israel attacking people who have never attacked them, such as unarmed children.
December 18, 2025 at 7:18 PM
But that's what lots of people mean when they use that phrase.
And of course, many people also use that phrase to refer to Israel attacking people who have never attacked them, such as unarmed children.
And of course, many people also use that phrase to refer to Israel attacking people who have never attacked them, such as unarmed children.
Every time someone fires at the IDF and they fire back, that's "Israel defending itself". That's what people mean by the phrase. You and I agree that the IDF, being a fascist force currently committing genocide atrocities, does not have the right to defend itself any more than the Nazis did.
December 18, 2025 at 7:17 PM
Every time someone fires at the IDF and they fire back, that's "Israel defending itself". That's what people mean by the phrase. You and I agree that the IDF, being a fascist force currently committing genocide atrocities, does not have the right to defend itself any more than the Nazis did.
It is though. Whether we like it or not, that phrase is frequently used by many people to refer to exactly that.
December 18, 2025 at 7:15 PM
It is though. Whether we like it or not, that phrase is frequently used by many people to refer to exactly that.
I've never said or implied that it's going to happen overnight. All I've said is
1) it needs to be destroyed;
2) nobody has a right to defend it from being destroyed
Neither of those things are changed by the fact that destroying it will take a lot of time and work.
1) it needs to be destroyed;
2) nobody has a right to defend it from being destroyed
Neither of those things are changed by the fact that destroying it will take a lot of time and work.
December 18, 2025 at 7:13 PM
I've never said or implied that it's going to happen overnight. All I've said is
1) it needs to be destroyed;
2) nobody has a right to defend it from being destroyed
Neither of those things are changed by the fact that destroying it will take a lot of time and work.
1) it needs to be destroyed;
2) nobody has a right to defend it from being destroyed
Neither of those things are changed by the fact that destroying it will take a lot of time and work.
I agree completely. I'm opposed to collective punishment of those people, just as I would have opposed collective punishment of all civilians in Nazi Germany. But it was still correct to fight and destroy Nazi Germany, as it is to fight and destroy the fascist regime in Israel.
We agree on this!
We agree on this!
December 18, 2025 at 7:12 PM
I agree completely. I'm opposed to collective punishment of those people, just as I would have opposed collective punishment of all civilians in Nazi Germany. But it was still correct to fight and destroy Nazi Germany, as it is to fight and destroy the fascist regime in Israel.
We agree on this!
We agree on this!
If the government of Saudia Arabia, and my own government, regularly told me that their bigoted oppressive laws were necessary to keep me personally safe then I'd probably talk about them more than I do. But they don't, so I tend to talk more about Israel.
December 18, 2025 at 7:07 PM
If the government of Saudia Arabia, and my own government, regularly told me that their bigoted oppressive laws were necessary to keep me personally safe then I'd probably talk about them more than I do. But they don't, so I tend to talk more about Israel.
Of course it would be great if the Israeli regime was destroyed non-violently, just as it would have been great for the Nazis to be destroyed non-violently, but that doesn't change the fact that Nazis and fascists defending themselves against destruction is bad.
December 18, 2025 at 7:02 PM
Of course it would be great if the Israeli regime was destroyed non-violently, just as it would have been great for the Nazis to be destroyed non-violently, but that doesn't change the fact that Nazis and fascists defending themselves against destruction is bad.
Nazi Germany was destroyed, and now there's a different state called Germany in the same place. That's what needs to happen to the fascist state of Israel. I'm glad we ended up agreeing :)
December 18, 2025 at 7:01 PM
Nazi Germany was destroyed, and now there's a different state called Germany in the same place. That's what needs to happen to the fascist state of Israel. I'm glad we ended up agreeing :)
Right, so we can agree that the state of Israel under its current leadership trying to defend its regime is just as justifiable as Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan defending themselves, ie bad, because we want it to be destroyed and replaced with a better successor state like they were.
December 18, 2025 at 7:01 PM
Right, so we can agree that the state of Israel under its current leadership trying to defend its regime is just as justifiable as Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan defending themselves, ie bad, because we want it to be destroyed and replaced with a better successor state like they were.
Note that no genocide was needed to destroy Nazi Germany or apartheid South Africa, just as no genocide is needed to destroy the fascist state of Israel.
December 18, 2025 at 5:19 PM
Note that no genocide was needed to destroy Nazi Germany or apartheid South Africa, just as no genocide is needed to destroy the fascist state of Israel.
The Israeli state is a far bigger threat to the safety of people in Israel than Hamas is.
December 18, 2025 at 5:18 PM
The Israeli state is a far bigger threat to the safety of people in Israel than Hamas is.
We all agree that those states attempting to defend themselves against their destruction was bad. The fascist state of Israel trying to defend itself is similarly bad, because it needs to be destroyed and replaced with a non-racist, democratic state.
December 18, 2025 at 5:17 PM
We all agree that those states attempting to defend themselves against their destruction was bad. The fascist state of Israel trying to defend itself is similarly bad, because it needs to be destroyed and replaced with a non-racist, democratic state.
No, I didn't say genocide was good. The destruction of a fascist state and its replacement with a non-fascist one is good. We all agree that it's good Nazi Germany, apartheid South Africa, and Imperial Japan were destroyed and replaced with better states.
December 18, 2025 at 5:16 PM
No, I didn't say genocide was good. The destruction of a fascist state and its replacement with a non-fascist one is good. We all agree that it's good Nazi Germany, apartheid South Africa, and Imperial Japan were destroyed and replaced with better states.
Just like "Israel has the right to defend itself" is often used to mean "Israel has the right to attack other people"
December 18, 2025 at 5:15 PM
Just like "Israel has the right to defend itself" is often used to mean "Israel has the right to attack other people"
Of course the human beings living in Israel have the right to self defence, but that's very difference.
December 18, 2025 at 5:04 PM
Of course the human beings living in Israel have the right to self defence, but that's very difference.
And Israel does not in fact have the right to defend itself from forced destruction, the same way apartheid South Africa and Imperial Japan didn't have the right to defend themselves from destruction; because the destruction of all those entities is actually good.
December 18, 2025 at 5:04 PM
And Israel does not in fact have the right to defend itself from forced destruction, the same way apartheid South Africa and Imperial Japan didn't have the right to defend themselves from destruction; because the destruction of all those entities is actually good.
Well if anyone said "please don't say a nation should be free" it ought to sound hella sus, but a lot of people do object to "from the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free".
December 18, 2025 at 5:03 PM
Well if anyone said "please don't say a nation should be free" it ought to sound hella sus, but a lot of people do object to "from the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free".