problem mostly solved! current solution works, I just needed to close the door in their face for longer than 0.5 second. that was too short for items to fall out of reach, apparently. (I should have thought of it earlier, but I was too incandescent with rage)

ooh, new idea. open the doors under them and make them fall and grab onto a ladder. that should hopefully make them drop the items they're carrying and make them waste enough time in the falling animation that the items get out of their reach.

I actually don’t know how you solve the problem of people just refusing to believe sources that tell them the truth instead of ones that lie to them

pffffff

glad I managed to go there with y'all