@joustingjim.bsky.social
As a Brexiteer I just see so many things that people get wrong about it still though, will only get worse on here.
It might be easy to cry racism and pearl clutch about FoM but Remainers don't need to be so defensive about that.
It might be easy to cry racism and pearl clutch about FoM but Remainers don't need to be so defensive about that.
November 29, 2024 at 6:19 PM
As a Brexiteer I just see so many things that people get wrong about it still though, will only get worse on here.
It might be easy to cry racism and pearl clutch about FoM but Remainers don't need to be so defensive about that.
It might be easy to cry racism and pearl clutch about FoM but Remainers don't need to be so defensive about that.
Never saw the Greens complain about numbers so yes they'll be positive.
Scotland and Wales are not hugely overburdened by it like England is.
So got to factor that into the positivity.
Scotland and Wales are not hugely overburdened by it like England is.
So got to factor that into the positivity.
November 29, 2024 at 5:47 PM
Never saw the Greens complain about numbers so yes they'll be positive.
Scotland and Wales are not hugely overburdened by it like England is.
So got to factor that into the positivity.
Scotland and Wales are not hugely overburdened by it like England is.
So got to factor that into the positivity.
Rory Stewart Ex-Tory says immigration is good but conceded the current immigration system is a 'disaster'.
Then stated the Far-Right are fuelled by the perception the immigration system is a disaster.
Which he just said it was.
Either concerns can be held or they can't.
Then stated the Far-Right are fuelled by the perception the immigration system is a disaster.
Which he just said it was.
Either concerns can be held or they can't.
November 29, 2024 at 5:45 PM
Rory Stewart Ex-Tory says immigration is good but conceded the current immigration system is a 'disaster'.
Then stated the Far-Right are fuelled by the perception the immigration system is a disaster.
Which he just said it was.
Either concerns can be held or they can't.
Then stated the Far-Right are fuelled by the perception the immigration system is a disaster.
Which he just said it was.
Either concerns can be held or they can't.
He's suggesting the Tories wanted to replace the 350k EU incoming (already way too high) with vastly more from around the world.
Actually the amount of work visas are about the 350k level with the other 600k or so for students and family members.
Actually the amount of work visas are about the 350k level with the other 600k or so for students and family members.
November 29, 2024 at 5:35 PM
He's suggesting the Tories wanted to replace the 350k EU incoming (already way too high) with vastly more from around the world.
Actually the amount of work visas are about the 350k level with the other 600k or so for students and family members.
Actually the amount of work visas are about the 350k level with the other 600k or so for students and family members.
As I've asked elsewhere is there nothing at all about FoM that you'd have accepted being questioned?
November 29, 2024 at 5:31 PM
As I've asked elsewhere is there nothing at all about FoM that you'd have accepted being questioned?
Did you vote Leave?
November 29, 2024 at 5:25 PM
Did you vote Leave?
That means Starmer conceding the EU can control immigration from there far better than he can.
Handing back of controls politically awful optics.
Handing back of controls politically awful optics.
November 29, 2024 at 5:22 PM
That means Starmer conceding the EU can control immigration from there far better than he can.
Handing back of controls politically awful optics.
Handing back of controls politically awful optics.
EU numbers were considered probably 200k too high so yes control was sought but with a strong expectation that'd equal a lower number.
You suggesting Brexiteers didn't expect EU numbers being reduced is nonsense, I voted for it lol.
Remainers declared any desire for reduction was racist/xenophobic.
You suggesting Brexiteers didn't expect EU numbers being reduced is nonsense, I voted for it lol.
Remainers declared any desire for reduction was racist/xenophobic.
November 29, 2024 at 5:20 PM
EU numbers were considered probably 200k too high so yes control was sought but with a strong expectation that'd equal a lower number.
You suggesting Brexiteers didn't expect EU numbers being reduced is nonsense, I voted for it lol.
Remainers declared any desire for reduction was racist/xenophobic.
You suggesting Brexiteers didn't expect EU numbers being reduced is nonsense, I voted for it lol.
Remainers declared any desire for reduction was racist/xenophobic.
I didn't have any of that reasoning when placing my vote though.
November 29, 2024 at 5:16 PM
I didn't have any of that reasoning when placing my vote though.
Would you say Freedom of Movement should have been beyond question to Leave voters like myself?
November 29, 2024 at 5:15 PM
Would you say Freedom of Movement should have been beyond question to Leave voters like myself?
EU numbers were far to high with the prospect of the EU expanding so not exactly finite numbers.
Non EU numbers too high too Pre-Brexit.
Idea was to have Visas open to all with many EU citizens expected to stay in the UK anyway.
Non EU numbers too high too Pre-Brexit.
Idea was to have Visas open to all with many EU citizens expected to stay in the UK anyway.
November 29, 2024 at 5:13 PM
EU numbers were far to high with the prospect of the EU expanding so not exactly finite numbers.
Non EU numbers too high too Pre-Brexit.
Idea was to have Visas open to all with many EU citizens expected to stay in the UK anyway.
Non EU numbers too high too Pre-Brexit.
Idea was to have Visas open to all with many EU citizens expected to stay in the UK anyway.
Always been more of a security issue to me especially for the safety of women. Your response?
November 25, 2024 at 6:00 PM
Always been more of a security issue to me especially for the safety of women. Your response?
Is this a new position? I'd say up to 10 years ago removing illegals wasn't a right or left issue but now seeing Democrats saying they'd try to block it in their states.
To me your view is far-left, discuss.
To me your view is far-left, discuss.
November 25, 2024 at 5:58 PM
Is this a new position? I'd say up to 10 years ago removing illegals wasn't a right or left issue but now seeing Democrats saying they'd try to block it in their states.
To me your view is far-left, discuss.
To me your view is far-left, discuss.
Illegal immigration doesn't bother you?
What about the security risk of not knowing their backgrounds?
Didn't a US Jogger recently get attacked and murdered by a Venezuelan illegal?
What about the security risk of not knowing their backgrounds?
Didn't a US Jogger recently get attacked and murdered by a Venezuelan illegal?
November 25, 2024 at 5:56 PM
Illegal immigration doesn't bother you?
What about the security risk of not knowing their backgrounds?
Didn't a US Jogger recently get attacked and murdered by a Venezuelan illegal?
What about the security risk of not knowing their backgrounds?
Didn't a US Jogger recently get attacked and murdered by a Venezuelan illegal?
Niall raises an important point, who are you trying to attract?
Labour selling Brexit failings won't win over Leavers particularly as it tends to be GDP/Economy based which wasn't a driver of Brexit.
Labour selling Brexit failings won't win over Leavers particularly as it tends to be GDP/Economy based which wasn't a driver of Brexit.
November 24, 2024 at 8:47 AM
Niall raises an important point, who are you trying to attract?
Labour selling Brexit failings won't win over Leavers particularly as it tends to be GDP/Economy based which wasn't a driver of Brexit.
Labour selling Brexit failings won't win over Leavers particularly as it tends to be GDP/Economy based which wasn't a driver of Brexit.
Wouldn't say I was Anti-European, just have no love for the EU.
My father was a strong eurosceptic and voted Leave but ran his own business under EFTA and always said how well it worked. He would have accepted EFTA/EEA in 2016.
I suspect most Remain/Rejoin EFTA fans just want full membership really.
My father was a strong eurosceptic and voted Leave but ran his own business under EFTA and always said how well it worked. He would have accepted EFTA/EEA in 2016.
I suspect most Remain/Rejoin EFTA fans just want full membership really.
November 24, 2024 at 8:38 AM
Wouldn't say I was Anti-European, just have no love for the EU.
My father was a strong eurosceptic and voted Leave but ran his own business under EFTA and always said how well it worked. He would have accepted EFTA/EEA in 2016.
I suspect most Remain/Rejoin EFTA fans just want full membership really.
My father was a strong eurosceptic and voted Leave but ran his own business under EFTA and always said how well it worked. He would have accepted EFTA/EEA in 2016.
I suspect most Remain/Rejoin EFTA fans just want full membership really.
Understood and I agree, they'll need to sell it somehow without looking like they just want to hand over power they have said they wanted for 14 years lol
To say FoM will be better for any control reasons would look a disaster. Not sure them saying economically it'll be better works either.
To say FoM will be better for any control reasons would look a disaster. Not sure them saying economically it'll be better works either.
November 24, 2024 at 8:34 AM
Understood and I agree, they'll need to sell it somehow without looking like they just want to hand over power they have said they wanted for 14 years lol
To say FoM will be better for any control reasons would look a disaster. Not sure them saying economically it'll be better works either.
To say FoM will be better for any control reasons would look a disaster. Not sure them saying economically it'll be better works either.
Most Brexit voters I know are regular people with families. Police, army, call centre workers, healthcare, IT I know of.
Maybe your approach is now correct though, I've never tried to change the mind of anyone Pro-EU, no need to.
The 'compete' comment suggests you are still scoring Brexit though.
Maybe your approach is now correct though, I've never tried to change the mind of anyone Pro-EU, no need to.
The 'compete' comment suggests you are still scoring Brexit though.
November 24, 2024 at 8:27 AM
Most Brexit voters I know are regular people with families. Police, army, call centre workers, healthcare, IT I know of.
Maybe your approach is now correct though, I've never tried to change the mind of anyone Pro-EU, no need to.
The 'compete' comment suggests you are still scoring Brexit though.
Maybe your approach is now correct though, I've never tried to change the mind of anyone Pro-EU, no need to.
The 'compete' comment suggests you are still scoring Brexit though.
Ah, you are going to try to win it purely with one side you feel is already there in enough numbers.
US Democrats tried that, didn't work.
So who are you needing to roll the pitch for?
I think you'd be relying solely on FoM to win a referendum, UK isn't Anti-European but it's not Pro-European.
US Democrats tried that, didn't work.
So who are you needing to roll the pitch for?
I think you'd be relying solely on FoM to win a referendum, UK isn't Anti-European but it's not Pro-European.
November 24, 2024 at 8:17 AM
Ah, you are going to try to win it purely with one side you feel is already there in enough numbers.
US Democrats tried that, didn't work.
So who are you needing to roll the pitch for?
I think you'd be relying solely on FoM to win a referendum, UK isn't Anti-European but it's not Pro-European.
US Democrats tried that, didn't work.
So who are you needing to roll the pitch for?
I think you'd be relying solely on FoM to win a referendum, UK isn't Anti-European but it's not Pro-European.
My free advice that I have given out since 2016 and even to the US Democrat campaigners is you must bring someone genuinely from the other viewpoint into the mix.
If my view of Brexit working is different to yours, you won't win me over anyway.
So find out how a Brexit voter judges it and on what.
If my view of Brexit working is different to yours, you won't win me over anyway.
So find out how a Brexit voter judges it and on what.
November 24, 2024 at 8:12 AM
My free advice that I have given out since 2016 and even to the US Democrat campaigners is you must bring someone genuinely from the other viewpoint into the mix.
If my view of Brexit working is different to yours, you won't win me over anyway.
So find out how a Brexit voter judges it and on what.
If my view of Brexit working is different to yours, you won't win me over anyway.
So find out how a Brexit voter judges it and on what.
Hmmm I think that's recognised already though.
Govt gets the blame for it, it's not a fault of Brexit.
What are the guarantees you can give me that numbers fall?
How do you sell handing back control over EU incoming citizens to the public?
Sovereignty issue?
What if numbers higher 1 month in?
Govt gets the blame for it, it's not a fault of Brexit.
What are the guarantees you can give me that numbers fall?
How do you sell handing back control over EU incoming citizens to the public?
Sovereignty issue?
What if numbers higher 1 month in?
November 24, 2024 at 8:10 AM
Hmmm I think that's recognised already though.
Govt gets the blame for it, it's not a fault of Brexit.
What are the guarantees you can give me that numbers fall?
How do you sell handing back control over EU incoming citizens to the public?
Sovereignty issue?
What if numbers higher 1 month in?
Govt gets the blame for it, it's not a fault of Brexit.
What are the guarantees you can give me that numbers fall?
How do you sell handing back control over EU incoming citizens to the public?
Sovereignty issue?
What if numbers higher 1 month in?
Free movement I would say still the biggest concern for Brexit supporters, immigration in general is anyway.
I'm seeing people talk up FoM, that it's good for us, heard it all before.
So original concerns are still there, except now you give away UK controls for maybe less or maybe more newcomers.
I'm seeing people talk up FoM, that it's good for us, heard it all before.
So original concerns are still there, except now you give away UK controls for maybe less or maybe more newcomers.
November 24, 2024 at 8:07 AM
Free movement I would say still the biggest concern for Brexit supporters, immigration in general is anyway.
I'm seeing people talk up FoM, that it's good for us, heard it all before.
So original concerns are still there, except now you give away UK controls for maybe less or maybe more newcomers.
I'm seeing people talk up FoM, that it's good for us, heard it all before.
So original concerns are still there, except now you give away UK controls for maybe less or maybe more newcomers.
Talking up Europe and the SM. Ok in itself not a bad idea but in 2016 this was tried.
Economy threats were made should people dare to leave.
We ignored them.
Many don't believe SM figures for it's value to UK, you'll need some current widely accepted data, not OBR for a start.
Economy threats were made should people dare to leave.
We ignored them.
Many don't believe SM figures for it's value to UK, you'll need some current widely accepted data, not OBR for a start.
November 24, 2024 at 8:04 AM
Talking up Europe and the SM. Ok in itself not a bad idea but in 2016 this was tried.
Economy threats were made should people dare to leave.
We ignored them.
Many don't believe SM figures for it's value to UK, you'll need some current widely accepted data, not OBR for a start.
Economy threats were made should people dare to leave.
We ignored them.
Many don't believe SM figures for it's value to UK, you'll need some current widely accepted data, not OBR for a start.
I hope Remainers/Rejoiners aren't going to run to Bluesky and try to figure out amongst yourselves how to win Brexiteers around to your views.
Already seeing things put here that to me as a Leave voter is just apples and oranges. It's biased guesswork yet again.
Already seeing things put here that to me as a Leave voter is just apples and oranges. It's biased guesswork yet again.
November 24, 2024 at 8:02 AM
I hope Remainers/Rejoiners aren't going to run to Bluesky and try to figure out amongst yourselves how to win Brexiteers around to your views.
Already seeing things put here that to me as a Leave voter is just apples and oranges. It's biased guesswork yet again.
Already seeing things put here that to me as a Leave voter is just apples and oranges. It's biased guesswork yet again.