Your impression was justified.
December 15, 2025 at 6:49 PM
Your impression was justified.
Not at all. I think the atproto indie scene will need about 3 years to mature to the point where atproto itself has been de-risked enough for larger established apps (or well-funded startups) to consider betting a big part of their future on it.
December 15, 2025 at 5:46 PM
Not at all. I think the atproto indie scene will need about 3 years to mature to the point where atproto itself has been de-risked enough for larger established apps (or well-funded startups) to consider betting a big part of their future on it.
Sure, but *someone* is paying for that. A PDS is a physical thing that costs money, yours or someone else's.
And self-hosted PDSes are a fraction. You can take all the self-hosted PDSes, multiple by one-thousand, and you still don't get the number of buesky users that don't know what PDS means.
And self-hosted PDSes are a fraction. You can take all the self-hosted PDSes, multiple by one-thousand, and you still don't get the number of buesky users that don't know what PDS means.
December 15, 2025 at 5:27 PM
Sure, but *someone* is paying for that. A PDS is a physical thing that costs money, yours or someone else's.
And self-hosted PDSes are a fraction. You can take all the self-hosted PDSes, multiple by one-thousand, and you still don't get the number of buesky users that don't know what PDS means.
And self-hosted PDSes are a fraction. You can take all the self-hosted PDSes, multiple by one-thousand, and you still don't get the number of buesky users that don't know what PDS means.
Currant usage of Bluesky-hosted PDSs for non-Bluesky app posting will be a teeny tiny fraction.
In the end though it comes down to physical computers, it always does. Your PDS is your computer (mostly), and if you're not paying for your computer then someone else is paying for it for you.
In the end though it comes down to physical computers, it always does. Your PDS is your computer (mostly), and if you're not paying for your computer then someone else is paying for it for you.
December 15, 2025 at 4:59 PM
Currant usage of Bluesky-hosted PDSs for non-Bluesky app posting will be a teeny tiny fraction.
In the end though it comes down to physical computers, it always does. Your PDS is your computer (mostly), and if you're not paying for your computer then someone else is paying for it for you.
In the end though it comes down to physical computers, it always does. Your PDS is your computer (mostly), and if you're not paying for your computer then someone else is paying for it for you.
Yes but Bluesky is hosting PDSes for itself (99% anyway). In this hypothetical Digg situation we already live in an atproto future where things have fanned out, and as a private app any PDS you host is not going to be used for just your app. It might not even be used for your app at all.
December 15, 2025 at 4:54 PM
Yes but Bluesky is hosting PDSes for itself (99% anyway). In this hypothetical Digg situation we already live in an atproto future where things have fanned out, and as a private app any PDS you host is not going to be used for just your app. It might not even be used for your app at all.
Pretty safe to say Digg is not going to want to be economically and especially legally responsible for hosting all this content that isn't meant for Digg. But a Digg-only PDS makes little sense, really. The whole idea of a PDS is that it's one for many.
December 15, 2025 at 4:50 PM
Pretty safe to say Digg is not going to want to be economically and especially legally responsible for hosting all this content that isn't meant for Digg. But a Digg-only PDS makes little sense, really. The whole idea of a PDS is that it's one for many.
If those servers go down, most users will go down with the ship, as always. Migration will capture only some. And does Digg really want to cough up to be a free PDS host? Digg can't control what users use PDSes for. Some might use them for posting long videos to a competitor's app (ouch). Or porn.
December 15, 2025 at 4:47 PM
If those servers go down, most users will go down with the ship, as always. Migration will capture only some. And does Digg really want to cough up to be a free PDS host? Digg can't control what users use PDSes for. Some might use them for posting long videos to a competitor's app (ouch). Or porn.
These are bare metal servers, in a locked room, belonging to a private company that is not a cloud provider, is not overly well funded and does not yet have real revenue. You have to look at these servers and ask "are these going to become important for us" and if yes then that's a real issue.
December 15, 2025 at 4:36 PM
These are bare metal servers, in a locked room, belonging to a private company that is not a cloud provider, is not overly well funded and does not yet have real revenue. You have to look at these servers and ask "are these going to become important for us" and if yes then that's a real issue.
More importantly, businesses don't want to be in a world where a direct competitor can end up hosting your users' data, on their machines, in their server rooms. And if atproto scales there will be many cases of two or more direct competitors making use of the same person's PDS.
December 15, 2025 at 3:36 PM
More importantly, businesses don't want to be in a world where a direct competitor can end up hosting your users' data, on their machines, in their server rooms. And if atproto scales there will be many cases of two or more direct competitors making use of the same person's PDS.
Digg could tell its Bsky-hosted users to migrate, but managing this might be a nightmare (versus taking over bsky's infra). And the dropoff will be high, it always is, and of the small % who get what is really being asked of them a lot will be happy to use Digg but not have Digg sugardaddy their PDS
December 15, 2025 at 3:30 PM
Digg could tell its Bsky-hosted users to migrate, but managing this might be a nightmare (versus taking over bsky's infra). And the dropoff will be high, it always is, and of the small % who get what is really being asked of them a lot will be happy to use Digg but not have Digg sugardaddy their PDS
I think there’s a misunderstanding. In this case Digg is reliant on servers operated by Bluesky, in the sense that if these servers go down it’s a real business problem for Digg.
December 15, 2025 at 3:02 PM
I think there’s a misunderstanding. In this case Digg is reliant on servers operated by Bluesky, in the sense that if these servers go down it’s a real business problem for Digg.
Legal reasons for one. Say Bluesky goes lights out, 90 day warning. Those bare metal servers are critical to Digg, but also to a competitor, Dugg. Digg offers to take over hosting. Dugg is naturally opposed, sues and wins. (Also Blacksky's grace period can't last, server costs are server costs.)
December 15, 2025 at 2:52 PM
Legal reasons for one. Say Bluesky goes lights out, 90 day warning. Those bare metal servers are critical to Digg, but also to a competitor, Dugg. Digg offers to take over hosting. Dugg is naturally opposed, sues and wins. (Also Blacksky's grace period can't last, server costs are server costs.)
Bluesky is sugar-daddying 99% of atproto PDSes. Anyone who leaves, it'll be to a paid host, or to pay for self-hosting. So from not paying to suddenly paying.
December 15, 2025 at 2:44 PM
Bluesky is sugar-daddying 99% of atproto PDSes. Anyone who leaves, it'll be to a paid host, or to pay for self-hosting. So from not paying to suddenly paying.
Leaving digg for reddit is free. Leaving Bluesky for another host is not going to be free.
December 15, 2025 at 2:41 PM
Leaving digg for reddit is free. Leaving Bluesky for another host is not going to be free.
It matters where the physical machines are, where the electricity wires connect. Bluesky is not a hyperscale cloud provider with thousands of business customers. It's a private startup with good intentions but limited funding. Betting big on those bare metal machines in their server rooms is risky.
December 15, 2025 at 2:18 PM
It matters where the physical machines are, where the electricity wires connect. Bluesky is not a hyperscale cloud provider with thousands of business customers. It's a private startup with good intentions but limited funding. Betting big on those bare metal machines in their server rooms is risky.
Effective B2B lock-in. Digg would be locked in to Bluesky as their cloud provider, essentially. It doesn't matter that individual accounts can migrate, very likely 90%+ of those currently on Bluesky-hosted PDSes will not migrate in the next 10 years (or ever) maybe 99%.
December 15, 2025 at 1:57 PM
Effective B2B lock-in. Digg would be locked in to Bluesky as their cloud provider, essentially. It doesn't matter that individual accounts can migrate, very likely 90%+ of those currently on Bluesky-hosted PDSes will not migrate in the next 10 years (or ever) maybe 99%.
Building on atproto without mentioning atproto seems pointless. And if they did, seems it could easily go viral on Bluesky and most of their initial signups would be from bluesky-hosted PDSes looking to take advantage of a single account that works for both. Then back to the infra lock-in risk.
December 15, 2025 at 1:48 PM
Building on atproto without mentioning atproto seems pointless. And if they did, seems it could easily go viral on Bluesky and most of their initial signups would be from bluesky-hosted PDSes looking to take advantage of a single account that works for both. Then back to the infra lock-in risk.
Pretty tough sell. If we're talking existing atproto users, 99% using this digg would be on bluesky-hosted PDSes. How do you build a company but give control over the core infra to a single other company that ins't a massive multi-tenant cloud provider or some such? Bluesky goes under, you do too.
December 15, 2025 at 1:13 PM
Pretty tough sell. If we're talking existing atproto users, 99% using this digg would be on bluesky-hosted PDSes. How do you build a company but give control over the core infra to a single other company that ins't a massive multi-tenant cloud provider or some such? Bluesky goes under, you do too.
Also one day we'll be able to host our PDSes on our phones. Maybe.
December 15, 2025 at 12:40 PM
Also one day we'll be able to host our PDSes on our phones. Maybe.
lol, Haskell is that last programming language I would have expected to get spicy.
December 4, 2025 at 5:47 PM
lol, Haskell is that last programming language I would have expected to get spicy.
99% of users here are PDS as a service—on one service. in that light it seems a reasonable stepping stone.
December 4, 2025 at 5:46 PM
99% of users here are PDS as a service—on one service. in that light it seems a reasonable stepping stone.
I think long term there'll be some "wait, you're asking me to host my PDS in your PDS?" confusion. "PDS" has sort of become synonymous with "account", it's going to be a vocabulary issue.
December 4, 2025 at 8:59 AM
I think long term there'll be some "wait, you're asking me to host my PDS in your PDS?" confusion. "PDS" has sort of become synonymous with "account", it's going to be a vocabulary issue.
Ordinary people will never get that far. Ordinary people won't know what a key is at all, let alone a rotation key. Most will go through life never knowing what it means to be in possession of a key, or how a key is any different to an auto-generated password.
December 4, 2025 at 7:16 AM
Ordinary people will never get that far. Ordinary people won't know what a key is at all, let alone a rotation key. Most will go through life never knowing what it means to be in possession of a key, or how a key is any different to an auto-generated password.
Person: Isn't it easier to let someone else do the house cleaning than do it yourself, even for just a small house?
Developers: No, because have you seen the latest Dyson vacuum cleaner?
Developers: No, because have you seen the latest Dyson vacuum cleaner?
December 3, 2025 at 8:02 PM
Person: Isn't it easier to let someone else do the house cleaning than do it yourself, even for just a small house?
Developers: No, because have you seen the latest Dyson vacuum cleaner?
Developers: No, because have you seen the latest Dyson vacuum cleaner?