James Handscombe
@jameshandscombe.bsky.social
Executive Principal, Mathematician, Teacher, Wordsmith not necessarily in that order.
Reposted by James Handscombe
There's a real power to leaving a universe's mythology unsaid. Not everything needs to have a canon page on a fanwiki.
November 16, 2025 at 8:35 AM
There's a real power to leaving a universe's mythology unsaid. Not everything needs to have a canon page on a fanwiki.
Feel free to come back for Tolkien-related chat and I’ll tell you if the redemption of the artist formerly known as racist-Thingol.
November 15, 2025 at 3:14 PM
Feel free to come back for Tolkien-related chat and I’ll tell you if the redemption of the artist formerly known as racist-Thingol.
We really don't know.
What we do know is that he is a merry fellow and he really considers himself to have won the romantic jackpot with Goldberry.
What we do know is that he is a merry fellow and he really considers himself to have won the romantic jackpot with Goldberry.
November 15, 2025 at 10:34 AM
We really don't know.
What we do know is that he is a merry fellow and he really considers himself to have won the romantic jackpot with Goldberry.
What we do know is that he is a merry fellow and he really considers himself to have won the romantic jackpot with Goldberry.
Yes - and they're not explained either.
The history of Arnor and what was in that space before Arnor came is fascinating and not well explored.
People fixate on Tom, but he is just the pinnacle of a whole bunch of weirdness that doesn't fit into neat boxes.
The history of Arnor and what was in that space before Arnor came is fascinating and not well explored.
People fixate on Tom, but he is just the pinnacle of a whole bunch of weirdness that doesn't fit into neat boxes.
November 15, 2025 at 10:08 AM
Yes - and they're not explained either.
The history of Arnor and what was in that space before Arnor came is fascinating and not well explored.
People fixate on Tom, but he is just the pinnacle of a whole bunch of weirdness that doesn't fit into neat boxes.
The history of Arnor and what was in that space before Arnor came is fascinating and not well explored.
People fixate on Tom, but he is just the pinnacle of a whole bunch of weirdness that doesn't fit into neat boxes.
Yes!
And so the bits that are contradictory don't need to be wrestled into agreement - history is full of contradictory evidence - there are some things about the past that we just don't know.
And so the bits that are contradictory don't need to be wrestled into agreement - history is full of contradictory evidence - there are some things about the past that we just don't know.
November 15, 2025 at 10:06 AM
Yes!
And so the bits that are contradictory don't need to be wrestled into agreement - history is full of contradictory evidence - there are some things about the past that we just don't know.
And so the bits that are contradictory don't need to be wrestled into agreement - history is full of contradictory evidence - there are some things about the past that we just don't know.
Tom is the hero you need for this place - he's Shire-like in garb and attitude and good cheer, but powerful enough to provide a rescue and see the hobbits safe to the end of his land. Narratively he covers for Gandalf's absence whilst having a reason to leave them alone again as they head into Bree.
November 15, 2025 at 10:05 AM
Tom is the hero you need for this place - he's Shire-like in garb and attitude and good cheer, but powerful enough to provide a rescue and see the hobbits safe to the end of his land. Narratively he covers for Gandalf's absence whilst having a reason to leave them alone again as they head into Bree.
Old Man Willow is very real and very deadly - which is why it's unwise to wander - and the Barrow Wights are even more ancient, occupiers of (to them recent but to the hobbits unfathomably old) burial places of long-forgotten kings.
November 15, 2025 at 10:04 AM
Old Man Willow is very real and very deadly - which is why it's unwise to wander - and the Barrow Wights are even more ancient, occupiers of (to them recent but to the hobbits unfathomably old) burial places of long-forgotten kings.
There are rumours of greater things off stage - dragons and elves and wizards, necromancers and black riders - and all of these add to the menace but they are not the story.
But then we leave the Shire and head into the Old Forest where we meet the strange, inexplicable and dangerous.
But then we leave the Shire and head into the Old Forest where we meet the strange, inexplicable and dangerous.
November 15, 2025 at 10:02 AM
There are rumours of greater things off stage - dragons and elves and wizards, necromancers and black riders - and all of these add to the menace but they are not the story.
But then we leave the Shire and head into the Old Forest where we meet the strange, inexplicable and dangerous.
But then we leave the Shire and head into the Old Forest where we meet the strange, inexplicable and dangerous.
If you want a defence of his chapters then I'd say that the Lord of the Rings takes you from the homely to the imperial and back again - we start in the Shire where eavesdroppers, spoon thieves and mushroom rustlers are the dangers - and feel dangerous because we are small in our imaginations.
November 15, 2025 at 10:00 AM
If you want a defence of his chapters then I'd say that the Lord of the Rings takes you from the homely to the imperial and back again - we start in the Shire where eavesdroppers, spoon thieves and mushroom rustlers are the dangers - and feel dangerous because we are small in our imaginations.
Tom is older than the Book.
And that's the reason he's there - The Lord of the Rings grew organically rather than being tightly constructed: I often think of Tolkien more as a historian, collecting narratives, trying to impose structure on an unstructured world, than as a novelist building a plot.
And that's the reason he's there - The Lord of the Rings grew organically rather than being tightly constructed: I often think of Tolkien more as a historian, collecting narratives, trying to impose structure on an unstructured world, than as a novelist building a plot.
November 15, 2025 at 9:58 AM
Tom is older than the Book.
And that's the reason he's there - The Lord of the Rings grew organically rather than being tightly constructed: I often think of Tolkien more as a historian, collecting narratives, trying to impose structure on an unstructured world, than as a novelist building a plot.
And that's the reason he's there - The Lord of the Rings grew organically rather than being tightly constructed: I often think of Tolkien more as a historian, collecting narratives, trying to impose structure on an unstructured world, than as a novelist building a plot.
Middle Earth is full of the strange and unclassifiable. We do well to remember it (and I think that even Tolkien began to forget as up he grew).
November 15, 2025 at 9:52 AM
Middle Earth is full of the strange and unclassifiable. We do well to remember it (and I think that even Tolkien began to forget as up he grew).
I think there's no evidence for that.
Tom is Master, but fair things pass away - it is their nature - only external intervention can prevent it.
But this end was averted by the pluck of a hobbit, the foresight of Gandalf and Elrond, pity, and what we in Middle Earth call lucky coincidence.
Tom is Master, but fair things pass away - it is their nature - only external intervention can prevent it.
But this end was averted by the pluck of a hobbit, the foresight of Gandalf and Elrond, pity, and what we in Middle Earth call lucky coincidence.
November 15, 2025 at 9:51 AM
I think there's no evidence for that.
Tom is Master, but fair things pass away - it is their nature - only external intervention can prevent it.
But this end was averted by the pluck of a hobbit, the foresight of Gandalf and Elrond, pity, and what we in Middle Earth call lucky coincidence.
Tom is Master, but fair things pass away - it is their nature - only external intervention can prevent it.
But this end was averted by the pluck of a hobbit, the foresight of Gandalf and Elrond, pity, and what we in Middle Earth call lucky coincidence.
So he stands sulking at one side whilst Tom starts a garden, as best he can, in the sand with his songs. Of the two, Tom would be happier so I guess he wins?
November 15, 2025 at 9:48 AM
So he stands sulking at one side whilst Tom starts a garden, as best he can, in the sand with his songs. Of the two, Tom would be happier so I guess he wins?
But secondly, Tom still doesn't fight - he's a merry fellow with a beautiful jacket and boots. I'm not sure Sauron fights either - what's in it for him? Pride is a Melkorian failing and his side-kick has inherited most of his faults: Sauron wouldn't demean himself for the amusement of Manwe et al.
November 15, 2025 at 9:48 AM
But secondly, Tom still doesn't fight - he's a merry fellow with a beautiful jacket and boots. I'm not sure Sauron fights either - what's in it for him? Pride is a Melkorian failing and his side-kick has inherited most of his faults: Sauron wouldn't demean himself for the amusement of Manwe et al.
But what, you ask, if Iluvatar loses his mind and creates a great arena with seats for all the Ainur in tiers round the outside and deposits Tom and Sauron on opposite sides of the sand.
Well, firstly, this isn't Tolkien's Iluvatar - so write what you like - it's not his Tom or Sauron either.
Well, firstly, this isn't Tolkien's Iluvatar - so write what you like - it's not his Tom or Sauron either.
November 15, 2025 at 9:46 AM
But what, you ask, if Iluvatar loses his mind and creates a great arena with seats for all the Ainur in tiers round the outside and deposits Tom and Sauron on opposite sides of the sand.
Well, firstly, this isn't Tolkien's Iluvatar - so write what you like - it's not his Tom or Sauron either.
Well, firstly, this isn't Tolkien's Iluvatar - so write what you like - it's not his Tom or Sauron either.
And honestly, it's a bit grim, but I don't think he falls in an epic battle with Sauron at the gates to his land, I think the orcs burn the forests, dig up the gardens, murder Goldberry and then, in some forgotten corner, Tom's last stand is simply being pushed backwards onto some morgul dagger.
November 15, 2025 at 9:45 AM
And honestly, it's a bit grim, but I don't think he falls in an epic battle with Sauron at the gates to his land, I think the orcs burn the forests, dig up the gardens, murder Goldberry and then, in some forgotten corner, Tom's last stand is simply being pushed backwards onto some morgul dagger.
And if there aren't rules then Sauron doesn't play by them and so what we would actually see is what Gandalf predicted in Rivendell - that Sauron's forces would take the rest of Middle Earth first, inch by inch, before moving on Tom's home but at that point he would fall.
November 15, 2025 at 9:43 AM
And if there aren't rules then Sauron doesn't play by them and so what we would actually see is what Gandalf predicted in Rivendell - that Sauron's forces would take the rest of Middle Earth first, inch by inch, before moving on Tom's home but at that point he would fall.
But the spirit of the (admittedly insane) question involves some kind of fisticuffs and presumably one without strict rules (we know that Tulkas and Melkor wrestled - I think Tom might be up for this if there was ale and singing afterwards but I can't see third age Sauron being interested).
November 15, 2025 at 9:41 AM
But the spirit of the (admittedly insane) question involves some kind of fisticuffs and presumably one without strict rules (we know that Tulkas and Melkor wrestled - I think Tom might be up for this if there was ale and singing afterwards but I can't see third age Sauron being interested).
And exasperation is the only sane response.
We know the answer to this - Tom doesn't fight, he's a merry fellow, he sings. Sauron also used to sing (he was part of the music of the Ainur) but there is no record of him doing so subsequent to the Last Alliance. Tom wins the song contest.
We know the answer to this - Tom doesn't fight, he's a merry fellow, he sings. Sauron also used to sing (he was part of the music of the Ainur) but there is no record of him doing so subsequent to the Last Alliance. Tom wins the song contest.
November 15, 2025 at 9:39 AM
And exasperation is the only sane response.
We know the answer to this - Tom doesn't fight, he's a merry fellow, he sings. Sauron also used to sing (he was part of the music of the Ainur) but there is no record of him doing so subsequent to the Last Alliance. Tom wins the song contest.
We know the answer to this - Tom doesn't fight, he's a merry fellow, he sings. Sauron also used to sing (he was part of the music of the Ainur) but there is no record of him doing so subsequent to the Last Alliance. Tom wins the song contest.
I think he wouldn’t even have had to - the long term narrative of Narnia is that if everyone gets along as they are meant to then you don’t need ruling - it’s only when someone tries to set themselves up as dictator that intervention is required.
November 15, 2025 at 8:49 AM
I think he wouldn’t even have had to - the long term narrative of Narnia is that if everyone gets along as they are meant to then you don’t need ruling - it’s only when someone tries to set themselves up as dictator that intervention is required.
No.
It’s not that kind of analogy - it isn’t a retelling of the Bible (still less human history) but rather a legend that illuminates an aspect of God’s character.
Even the execution of Aslan is an impressionist watercolour of the crucifixion rather than a cipher for it.
It’s not that kind of analogy - it isn’t a retelling of the Bible (still less human history) but rather a legend that illuminates an aspect of God’s character.
Even the execution of Aslan is an impressionist watercolour of the crucifixion rather than a cipher for it.
November 15, 2025 at 8:47 AM
No.
It’s not that kind of analogy - it isn’t a retelling of the Bible (still less human history) but rather a legend that illuminates an aspect of God’s character.
Even the execution of Aslan is an impressionist watercolour of the crucifixion rather than a cipher for it.
It’s not that kind of analogy - it isn’t a retelling of the Bible (still less human history) but rather a legend that illuminates an aspect of God’s character.
Even the execution of Aslan is an impressionist watercolour of the crucifixion rather than a cipher for it.
Presumably there was some succession planning - although it also seems to me that Narnia actually works as an anarchy as well as it does a monarchy: traditional rules and rights with low population density and general decency carrying the day.
Kings are usually optional.
Kings are usually optional.
November 15, 2025 at 8:43 AM
Presumably there was some succession planning - although it also seems to me that Narnia actually works as an anarchy as well as it does a monarchy: traditional rules and rights with low population density and general decency carrying the day.
Kings are usually optional.
Kings are usually optional.
Yes - there were monarchs subsequent to the Pevensies who were human and not dynastically related.
We know that High King Peter had a court with human nobles (from outside Narnia, one assumes?) and that Aslam was around at the start of his reign.
We know that High King Peter had a court with human nobles (from outside Narnia, one assumes?) and that Aslam was around at the start of his reign.
November 15, 2025 at 8:41 AM
Yes - there were monarchs subsequent to the Pevensies who were human and not dynastically related.
We know that High King Peter had a court with human nobles (from outside Narnia, one assumes?) and that Aslam was around at the start of his reign.
We know that High King Peter had a court with human nobles (from outside Narnia, one assumes?) and that Aslam was around at the start of his reign.
Pheasant or Phoenix
November 14, 2025 at 10:28 PM
Pheasant or Phoenix