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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 17d

Some humans will never possess this type of potential. I highly doubt we would say they are undeserving of justice. This is one step from appealing to speciesism to make jive when treating those humans as proper moral patients and all non-humans as not. Defense will ultimately fail IMO. 2/2

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 17d

Objection #3: Non-humans will never possess the capacity to be a citizen of anything. If they cannot be a citizen of the Cosmopolis, they do not deserve justice. Response: For some humans, we’d have to appeal to a sense of potentiality of future citizenship capacity to defend. 1/2

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 17d

Objection #2: “Unnecessary harm” does not exist since free will doesn't exist. We don’t control our actions ultimately. Response: Jury remains out on existence of free will. Lived experience suggests we have some control over our actions so causing unnecessary harm is possible.

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 17d

Objection #1: Becker is generally wrong in their assessment of what Stoicism would look like over 2300 years. Stoic positions would not be heavily influenced by science and would resist revision. Response: I think this would be hard to defend since reason is the Stoic’s guide.

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 17d

While there are some situations that may make things more difficult, living without animal-based products and avoiding harm is possible for the vast majority of people. The rest can be figured out with effort as far as is possible and practicable. 12/12

Some indefensible objections, to me, next:

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 17d

On the balance, the most this position would affect daily life is the prohibition against consumption of animal products. As those things are considered indifferents, the Stoic should have no difficulty accepting mere lifestyle changes to live virtuously. 11/

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 17d

I would not declare readily that a spider has no cognitive capacity or what the good life is for a sheep. There is so much we don’t know about non-human cognition that acting justly toward all non-human animals as far as is possible and practicable is a reasonable position in my view. 10/

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 17d

We know now that humans do have many characteristics in common with non-human animals. With all this said, I hold that these are strong reasons the Stoic in modern times should be compelled to act justly toward non-human animals who can possess a capacity to suffer. /9

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 17d

(I was not aware of Philo of Alexandria’s writing.) Agreed, ancient Stoics did not hold the view that non-humans possessed reasoning. They held the view that humans were different from all other animals because Stoics thought only humans have the capacity for reasoning. /8

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 17d

The keyword here being “unnecessary.” Pythagoras and his followers were the few ancients I’m familiar with to come close to this type of thinking toward non-humans. Musonius Rufus advised against consuming meat but not for reasons related to justice toward non-humans. /7

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 17d

We’ll revisit this problem if strong AI ever exists.
Justice is an other-regarding virtue. Understanding justice as treating another fairly and with kindness, one behaving in ways to avoid causing unnecessary suffering is practicing the virtue of justice. /6

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 17d

...greater cognitive capacities than very young humans and some humans with diminished cognitive capacities. Nonetheless, cognition of any capacity does appear to grant the capacity to suffer. Thus, limiting moral consideration to humans alone ignores the suffering of many non-human beings. 5/

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 17d

I like the quote because it moves away from flawed positions such as intelligence or language as the lines for moral consideration. Humans can lack either and they are still generally considered proper moral patients. Modern science has found that some non-human animals can possess... 4/

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 17d

This particular Bentham quote is oft-quoted when speaking about the ethical treatment of non-human animals. It was a quite remarkable utterance at the time. I agree Bentham as a utilitarian would have no issue utilizing non-humans to maximize the good, and he is not a Stoic role model. 3/

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 17d

I agree with Becker in that scientific findings would heavily influence Stoicism and lead to abandonment of some positions and revision of others. My view is modern scientific discoveries showing cognitive capacities in non-humans should motivate the Stoic to extend virtuous conduct to non-humans.2/

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 17d

Here's my paper (🧵😁) @sophisteuein.bsky.social @tannercampbell.net:
My thinking is motivated by Lawrence Becker’s imagining of what Stoicism would look like if it had a continuous 2300 years of development. The Stoic following where reason leads remains unchanged. 1/

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 19d

Hey @sophisteuein.bsky.social & @tannercampbell.net, welcome to my Bluesky meditations. I am delighted to see such interest in my musings. I have an obligation this morning but I plan to reply later.

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 19d

Non-humans:

" ...the question is not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?"

-Jeremy Bentham, Principles of Morals and Legislation

And thus deserving of justice

Out you go peacefully, outside-dwelling cosmopolitan

#Stoicism #philosophy #vegan

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 19d

First time sweet potato harvest hast arrived

#farming #farmsky #biointensive

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · 26d

Ashbury Heights - People are Strange [Cover]

YouTube video by Ashbury Heights

youtube.com

A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · Sep 14

Farming:

Amazing what happens when you try and learn, try and learn, try and learn...

#farming #farmsky #biointensive

A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · Sep 9

Desire:

A Stoic should not concern themselves with preparing only for trials of bodily suffering. Desire is a daily trial as to whether one allows their focus to shift to things beyond reach and to suffer mentally when unobtained. Our friends, the Buddhists, know this well.

#Stoicism #philosophy

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · Aug 21

Anger:

I arrived at the doorway of anger today. I then walked away. There was no virtue to be found on the other side.

#Stoicism #philosophy

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A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · Aug 1

Stoic Ethics:

"Ethical judgment is thus overriding because it subsumes all other relevant practical considerations (self-interest, altruism, prudence, etiquette, and so on) into one final judgment."

-L. Becker, A New Stoicism, 10

#philosophy #Stoicism

A Southern Stoic @asouthernstoic.bsky.social · Jul 22

Study:

I've read several of the popular modern books about Stoicism and I'm not finding much I didn't already grasp. I'm looking forward to A New Stoicism by Lawrence C. Becker as a return to serious academic study.

#Stoicism #philosophy

Book - A New Stoicism, Revised Edition by Lawrence C. Becker

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