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Safaitic @safaitic.bsky.social · 9h

#Testing a new #OCIANA functionality - let's map the attestations of the deity 𝒍𝒉 (Allāh, left) and the deity 𝒓𝒅̣𝒘 (Ruḍaw, right). We begin to see a geographic distribution come into focus...

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 9h

(i don't like this phrasing here, i oughta stress that the main thing i wanted to get across was the "what could he have done had he had access to other ppl's thoughts before him" but then as i was writing it i realized as an afterthought that hey ykw he actually kinda did and it did do him good)

quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 9h

rather than having to rediscover a lot of higher-level math for himself before he finally contacted other mathematicians (iirc). but also from the other direction imagine what would've happened had he never found the math textbook that got him started

we are not solving ramanujan problems here but/

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 9h

the 2nd post in this thread, no matter how big of a realization it originally was once it's been arrived at it becomes something you can read once and go "huh i see" and now u ~permanently have it in your knowledge bank)

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 9h

it still gives me comfort to think that i'm kind of fulfilling my duty to whoever comes next by making sure they don't have to bank on the same luck/lightbulbs and can just jump from these lightbulbs to even better lightbulbs

(to wit notice how i kinda just glossed over the diminutive thing in

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 9h

rather than having to rediscover a lot of higher-level math for himself before he finally contacted other mathematicians (iirc). but also from the other direction imagine what would've happened had he never found the math textbook that got him started

we are not solving ramanujan problems here but/

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 9h

like mājūd < mawjūd "present, existent", but even then you'd have to have the same lightbulb connecting *zawrūbe to the vn zawrabe for it to make sense)

stupid comparison but i remember reading about ramanujan that hardy wondered what he could've done had he had a formal education to start from/

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 9h

i really care about writing this stuff down. the diminutive thing alone came from a chance realization two years ago and if not for that moment of luck i prob couldn't have later picked up on this or zārūbe (you can prob still guess *zawrūbe if ur aware of the verb zawrab & of other dialects' forms/

screenshot of discord messages:

[redacted user] 7/3/23:
woah not exactly related but i just realized something
quadriliteral vns can't be individuated in the traditional way (with ة) since ofc theyre on the pattern فعلقة with ة already
but that's what forming a diminutive out of them does, it's not even really diminutive in meaning it's just individuating it
only realized bc i formed the word šawbūra out of šawbara "gesticulation" as a joke to myself w/o thinking and then paused to wonder whether that was actually a thing
but one time i heard the phrase "tarjūme ṭawīle 3arīḍa" that i noted down as meaning "convoluted circumlocution" (طويلة عريضة is kind of a set phrase you can use that way) and the word tarjūme there isn't really diminutive in any meaningful sense it's just an instance of tarjame
similarly a ša7rū2a is a coarse phlegmy cough and it's just an instance of ša7ra2a, the gerund of tša7ra2 "to cough that way"

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 9h

(altho it's not always just based on awkwardness: brustad 2000 mentions ħmārēn "two donkeys" vs tnēn ħamīr "two dumbasses", both duals of what's ostensibly one single term ħmār "donkey, dumbass". i don't personally object to ħmārēn "two dumbasses" but that may be a heritage speaker misjudgment?)

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 9h

(we do have the construct state mart "…'s wife" but at least to me i conceive of it as a separate lemma)

but neswēntēn isn't universal, not sure but ig the more popular dual for *martēn avoiders may be tnēn neswēn aka literally "two women", which is an acceptable construction for some awk plurals

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 9h

btw the reason "two women" has to come from the plural is probably that mara "woman" + -DU would produce martēn which is basically homophonous with marrtēn "two times", or maybe it's that CVCa is an unusual shape and it's not immediately obv anymore that the -a of mara is a ة that can become t

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 9h

amenable to being pluralized

so you have

عوينات+ة+ين
لقمشة+ة+جمع

and here the purposeless original ة of laʔmaše gets deleted bc that's just what suffixes do to ة in the same way that it gets deleted when you add a nisba ـي am i cooking

(idk difference between singulative and individuating)

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 9h

i want to think of it as like, you have a plural you need to make a dual from, so you force it to look singular with ة so that the dual -ēn has something it can gnaw on

and in the same way that that tacks on ة then DU, farkašēt feels like it's tacking on ة then PL in order to make a noncount vn/

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 9h

their form is monopolized by the verbal noun: laʔmaše "snacking", farkaše "tripping"

but conversely those verbal nouns can't be pluralized, so if you try to pluralize them the ة is forced to be understood as individuating

this seems sorta similar to what was going on with the dual above:

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 9h

another related thing: many quadriliteral instance nouns are like in the pic (šaħrūʔa "hoarse cough", zārūbe "detour", farkūše "mishap"), BUT there's another way to force indviduation:

laʔmašēt "snacks"
farkašēt "missteps"

these are plurals of *laʔmaše, *farkaše but those singulars don't exist bc/

wiktionary screenshot:

Etymology:
Instance noun of كزدر (kazdar, “to go for an aimless stroll or trip”), from Ottoman Turkish كزدرمك (gezdirmek) (compare Turkish gezdirmek).
Instance nouns are commonly formed by adding the feminine ending ة (-a, -e) to the verbal noun, but the typical verbal noun of a quadriliteral Iq verb like كزدر (kazdar) already has the feminine ending: كزدرة (kazdara, “the act of going for an aimless stroll or trip”). The instance noun therefore has to employ the additional strategy of taking the form of a diminutive.

Pronunciation:
• IPA: /kaz.duː.ra/, [kæzˈduːɾa]
• IPA: /ɡaz-/, [ɡæz-]

Noun
كزدورة • (kazdūra) f
1. a trip with no planned destination, a stroll or drive because one feels like it

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 9h

a loooooong time ago i shared these two duals from my parents:

neswēntēn "two women"
(neswēn "women" + singulative ة + dual -ēn)

ʕwaynēttēn "two pairs of glasses"
(ʕwaynēt "glasses" + ditto)

(first is normal, 2nd was come up with on the spot and i haven't heard it again)

since then i've noticed/

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 11h

yup exactly :( the thing i mentioned that's being trialed is a "drill all the way down" tool that doubles as an etymology tree widget -- see the tree and the page categories at en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%A3%... -- but it will take so much manual effort to make the whole dictionary work this way

أرضي شوكي - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/أرضي_شوكي

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 12h

oops i misread my own screenshots, the first one does indeed spell the new variant with q- like i was saying but the latter has f- (maghrebi mishap...?)

i should also add that the root d-w-r forms words related to revolving, turning and that dawwārah v much looks like it says "thing that revolves"

quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 12h

but to what extent are vocalization marks in modern manuscripts/scans like this even original...?

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 12h

this is what a digital copy of lisan al-arab has to say, first in the entry for √dwr and then in the entry for √fwr

these add a synonym, fawwārah (other dictionaries record a q- form too, idk), and the second finally alleges a difference: dawwārah fawwārah don't revolve, duwwārah fuwwārah do?

screenshot:

الأَعرابي: يقال دَوَّارَةٌ وقَوَّارَةٌ لكل ما لم يتحرك ولم يَدُرْ، فإِذا تحرك
ودار، فهو دَوَّارَةٌ وقَوَّارَةٌ.

screenshot:

وقال في موضع آخر: يقال دَوَّارة وفَوَّارة لكل ما لم يتحرّك ولم يدر، فإِذا
تحرّك ودار فهي دُوارة وفُوارة. وفَوَّارة الماء: مَنْبَعُه.

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 12h

remembered one of my favorite things on almaany.com:

dawwārah (n): anything that does not move or revolve
dawwārah (n): anything that moves or revolves

screenshot:

• الدَّوَّارةُ: كل ما لم يتحرك ولم يَدُر
• الدَّوَّارَةُ : كلُّ ما تحرَّك أَو دار

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 13h

(what i mean is that for example all of those terms should also appear at en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Categor... but the way mediawiki is built is pretty hostile to doing stuff like that automatically and wiktionary is only now trialing a way to fix this, prob won't be ready/good for a few years)

Category:South Levantine Arabic terms derived from Proto-Indo-European - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 13h

ugh wiktionary has eg en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Categor... but it needs (1) an actual editor community for a given dialect and (2) better plumbing on wiktionary's end

Category:South Levantine Arabic terms derived from French - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 16h

i was always a little in awe of whoever scribbled these sorts of notes in this book bc they seemingly close-read literally every single word and while i'm still def impressed i have to admit i didn't consider until i saw this sentence they wrote in french that they probably just like. speak french

quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 20h

are you kidding me i added the e but it went at the end of the post

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quietstuff.bsky.social @quietstuff.bsky.social · 20h

bikeshedding 💔

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