Rob Pickering
rob.pickering.org
Rob Pickering
@rob.pickering.org
Hills and lakes for fun.
Also dangerous with SIP, WebRTC, BGP, Javascript, ML & chainsaws.
Know too much about how the Interwebs work.
@robinjpickering on less advanced platforms
www.pickering.org for semi-professional opinions
January 16, 2025 at 12:19 PM
I don't underestimate it at all, it is broken. We need to start fixing broken things if we are to get the country out of the mess we are in.
There are no silver bullets but focussing on system change, rather than the conditioned helplessness of symptom fixing is what gets us to somewhere better.
January 11, 2025 at 7:23 PM
Even if I'm off by 90% and it is only £100, the numbers still stack up.
January 11, 2025 at 2:41 PM
Plucked it out of thin air, how many van sized loads of fly tipping can one team (bet its two people minimum) load up, take to the disposal facility in a day, clean the site. What is the cost of that disposal, line managers to manage them all, call centre to take reports etc etc.
January 11, 2025 at 2:40 PM
I believe there is a concept of prosecution costs in orders that courts can make, so maybe it could be done without legislation change.
Even if it does need it, the one off cost of making it so has got to be less than employing ever more people in vans (and people to manage them) to keep clearing up
January 11, 2025 at 2:35 PM
I do not.
Not blanket. The same places get hit again and again with fly tipping. If the CCTV is cheap and easy enough then just install one for a couple of months everywhere that there has been an incident.
January 11, 2025 at 2:27 PM
Return in investment. Invest £50,000 on an extra man in a van for a year, vs invest £50,000 on an enforcement person with fit for purpose tools. Which one reduces fly tipping more by the end of the year (return on that investment).
January 11, 2025 at 2:25 PM
being dumped, and a couple of months worth of battery is about £300. Would pay for itself with one detection and prosecution.
This is just an example. You said AI couldn't help with fly tipping, investment in people and vans is the only solution. That is an example of where it could.
January 11, 2025 at 2:22 PM
Yea, CCTV everywhere that there has been a flytipping incident. Costs what, £1000 to clear up with basically zero chance the offender is caught and pays.
Conventional CCTV costs a five figure sum, needs a mains supply etc, but the actual cost of a camera, with AI that can detect rubbish...
January 11, 2025 at 2:20 PM
And yes, putting lots of resource into clearing up, and not enough into rectifying root causes does affect something they care about. It reinforces "victimless crime, someone else is paid to remove it, so may as well leave it there" narrative.
January 11, 2025 at 1:41 PM
It isn't cost free, there is a (vanishingly small) probability of a (not large enough) fine. Fly tippers are economically rational just like everyone else. Change either of those variables and they make different decisions.
Fixing systems gives a much better ROI than chasing round clearing up.
January 11, 2025 at 1:38 PM
Obviously it would, right?
If you employ more blokes and more vans to simply clear up after fly tippers, then you get more fly-tipping, and need to employ more blokes and more vans. Rinse and repeat, until you run out of men, vans, or kitchen units to be fly tipped.
January 11, 2025 at 12:50 PM
How about IT solutions that reduced fly tipping by identifying offenders and tracking loads. Surely the fact that workers have to be sent to collect way more stuff than the council has capacity to deal with is a systems failure in controlling fly tipping?
January 11, 2025 at 12:19 PM