Did I say oil was a panacea, or problem-free? No I did not. Did I say cars - full stop - are not really the solution? Yes I did. I'd abandon my car and all the associated costs that go with it in a heartbeat if good and affordable public transit existed here. I did it when I lived in London.

It's not disinformation, they are heavy, they do leave more particulate matter due to their size and weight, the energy mix in the UK is largely non renewable, and rare earth minerals are needed in abundance and come from places with very poor working conditions.

This *is* normal times

Also for the record I love my petrol Fiat Panda and you can take it from my cold dead hands.

For the record I think electric cars are just as big a disaster is ICE cars, heavier, more particulate emissions, energy unlikely to be from a renewable source, uses massive amounts of rare earth materials. Electric cars are for saving the car industry, not the planet.

That's what pushed me to the block, i thought bl's initial response was thoughtful and thought provoking, but Horace's reaction was unhinged.

There's no need for that aggro attitude and it's rich of him to call out what he perceives to be macho posturing when he started the thread by accusing new green supporters of being libs, landlords and terfs

Yes it really was 2017

For The Many = Corbyn cargo cult for those who can't let 2017 go

Fucking hell, that's ludicrous, it's not even new! My soft spot for Stade Brestois has cost me, it's just a pair of maillots and a scarf, next time I'll go to France and get them myself.

Oh this is like when us NHS staff were told we had an inflation busting pay rise of 5.5% when inflation peaked at 12%. Politicians have nothing but contempt for actual public servants.

I'm gonna use it to get some lunch.

They're just repeating what the papers and telly tell them

What is important is not the level of the overall "tax burden" (itself a loaded phrase), but where that tax burden lies, and what is important for our media and business elite is that it doesn't fall on them.