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Skeptical Buddhism

@skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social

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asks how well we've understood what the Buddha taught, as we see him in our oldest versions of his talks. By going back to those ancient texts, and studying the culture of his time, can we get a more accurate sense of it? An iconoclastic Secular Buddhism.

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Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · Jun 28

0.0/ A Table of Contents for Skeptical Buddhism POSTS on Bluesky.
Table of Contents begins with post 1/. Each time I post a new thread I'll add a comment to this post indexing and introducing the contents. You can use the hashtag for each to find the first post. For example this one is #SB0of10K

1 1

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 3d

Lovely bit of art there, and interesting subject.

1 2

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 3d

39/ Is Craving's *vibhava* about suicide? … #SB39of10K
… Evidence emerges that supports my early theory about *bhava* and *vibhava* -- not suicide, but an ancient example of "spin". Some things never change!

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 3d

32/ Next post: bsky.app/profile/skep...

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

1/ Before we take a look at how all the pieces of the Rituals section of Dependent Arising (DA) fit together, I'd like to talk about the theory I mentioned back in post #SB37of10k on craving (*taṇhā*).
#SB39of10k

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

Hi Tashi! Just thought I'd let you know I just posted it. You can find it at bsky.app/profile/skep...

Thanks for your interest.

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

35/ There is nothing inherently wrong with having a desire to stay alive, nor enjoying the pleasures of life, except when we take them too far, doing harm to ourselves and others, believing it's our right, because that's the way life is.

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

34/ The Buddha's deeper point is that all three are instead discussing views about the self and its place in the world. We need to spend more time examining how we think about these, and how those views lead to dukkha.

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

33/ Current teachers of Buddhism too often describe the craving as all about material wealth and concerns with worldly pursuits like careers and reputation, and stop there, completely missing the deeper points about clinging to views of self, and arguing over them.

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

32/ Three terms — *kāma*, *bhava* and *vibhava* — act together as the three definitions of craving, and it seems to me fair to suggest that DA is not, here, telling us that we need to concern ourselves only with craving for sensual pleasures or what's outside us: wealth, fame, glory.

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

31/ In the meantime, it does seem clear from this that the two terms aren't about simple craving for existence or the 'annihilation' of non-existence, but were meant to be descriptive of common views about the self, the world and how life after death worked in the Buddha's day: views argued over.

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

30/ Note the connection, up there in 27/, between ignorance and rituals, i.e. *saṅkhārā*.

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

29/ If we want a better understanding of what *bhava* and *vibhava* meant in the Buddha's day, it will take a close collaboration between scholars of Buddhism and those of Vedism to sort it out. Such a collaboration should benefit both interests.

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

28/ … but still remain attached to a more refined form of 'knowledge' (like meditating on a specific deity) that does not lead to complete liberation. Similarly, one may give up the world of becoming but remain attached to the state of non-becoming."

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

27/ A further clarification, though perhaps based on a philosophical school long after the Buddha's life was over says, "The verses caution against spiritual pursuits that only address a part of the problem. A person may give up crude ignorance (rituals) …

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

26/ Google's Gemini said: "Becoming (sambhūti): Corresponds to the pursuit of effects and phenomena, which is equated with ritualistic action and limited knowledge."

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

25/ The answer was (I should have known) that the texts are designed to be challenging to understand and a bit unclear, though Vedic scholars (many modern-day Brahmins themselves) have sorted out the meaning.

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

24/ But I am no expert on those Vedic texts, so I asked Google's AI why there were two versions of those lines. What did the words represent?

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

23/ This confused me, since that seems to set up *bhava* -- in the BrU verse it's *sambhūti* -- which I took to refer to cyclic life and karma for learning. Instead that would make *bhava* point to knowledge of Brahman and dissolution into the All. The opposite of the way I thought it should be.

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

22/ And in our quote 'learning' (S: *vidyāyām* -- effectively, 'knowledge') for the alternative 'becoming' (S: *sambhūti*).

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

21/ The equivalence we're given here is, in our quote above, 'ignorance' (Sanskrit: *avidyām* Pali: *avijjā*) for the Mādhyandina version's 'non-becoming' (S: *asambhūti*). Note that the *bhū* in that word is the root of the words the Buddha was using, *bhava* and *vibhava*. All about 'becoming'.

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

20/ I was rereading Patrick Olivelle's "Upanisads" when I encountered one of those riddling phrases in the Bṛihadāraṇyaka Upaniṣad that seemed to match up with my theory, though I admit to being a bit puzzled by the riddle, even after reading Olivelle's note on it

Bṛihadāraṇyaka Upaniṣad 4.4.9-10
translated by Patrick Olivelle

By brahman was this path discovered;
By it goes the knower of brahman,
the doer of good, the man of light.
Into blind darkness they enter,
people who worship ignorance;
And into still blinder darkness,
people who delight in learning.

and Olivelle's note on 4-10:

Into blind . . . in this world: this verse occurs also at IU 9. The Mādhyandina version reads 'non-becoming' and 'becoming' in place of 'ignorance' and 'learning', a reading found also at IU 12 and viewed as superior by Horsch 1966, 165-5.

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

19/ That is, until this last month.

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

18/ This has been my theory since at least 2012, when I was drafting my paper on DA, "Burning Yourself". But I haven't been able to find any evidence to give strong support to Bodhi's supposition and mine that *bhava* and *vibhava* represent opposing popular views.

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

17/ If they understood the way of knowledge as suggesting no terrible end would, even so, for the sake of maintaining their flock's loyalty, be only too happy to foster the reputation of "the way of knowledge" as the way of destruction of the self: annihilation. An ancient example of "spin".

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

16/ We can well imagine that the Eternalists, imagining the progression of incarnations improving their lot in future lives, might perceive what the adherents of the way of knowledge were suggesting was the annihilation of the self. And the teachers who taught karma and reincarnation?

Skeptical Buddhism @skepticalbuddhism.bsky.social · 4d

15/ The point was the development of insight into our true nature, that we are all one with Brahman. When a person truly 'got' that understanding through and through, after death they would no longer return, instead, they would dissolve into blissful union with Brahman, the great All.